Wang Baoju (Wang): I have read some of the materials that you gave me last time and I have also done some research myself. 

 

Song Yang (Song): A bit of a mess.

 

Wang: Not really.  Actually, it is the era for making an achievement through a mess.

 

Song: I have done a lot of things but have yet to sort them out systematically.

 

Wang: That is just what I want to ask you about.  I know that, apart from painting, you also publish CDs, write fiction stories and columns and making DVs.  Why are you doing all these and expressing yourself in so many ways?  Is it because you think that each way has its own limitation so that you would like to try new things and see if it can express yourself as you wish?  Why are you doing these?

 

Song: Just feel it playful.  Everything has its own value or its own attractiveness.  In my childhood, I had no interest in Chinese traditional things.  I exposed to oil paintings and saw western paintings from very young. The music I listened to was bootleg tapes of Eagle band or of similar kind. After that, cartoon was a big attraction to me and, even when in college, I began to publish my own cartoon books.  I am the first of those who from mainland China published cartoon book in Europe. One French publisher plans to publish a big size catalogue of my oil paintings.  So, I think, when it comes to a certain stage, the boundaries will be broken up that cartoons, illustrations, oil paintings, etc. will all come to one point and I can use different methods for creation. A CD of mine will be attached to the cartoon book to be published in France this year.  I am keen to do something different and new, something playful and interesting.  I would like to give a try first and then care about other things.  I do not want to stick to one thing for my whole life, which is outdated and too much empiricism.  When people only have exposure to single thing or pattern of thinking, for example, people had no well developed internet system in the past and did not know what was happening or could not the development of art in other parts of the world, people could only paint at home day after day and maybe for their whole life.  But, nowadays, we can travel all over the world to participate in various activities, autograph books or go to see exhibitions.  There are many new and newer and more playful things for me to see and why I do not give a try.

 

Wang: But what I think is that, no matter it is painting, image, writing or any other kinds of pattern, it is only a way or a channel through which you want to reach a target.  The target is to express your inside and your feeling about this world.  But, does what you really want to say to the world need so many ways of expression? 

 

Song: It is just about my opinion, my opinion about the world and people. In my early paintings, this opinion is blurring.  You can see that the catalogue I gave you that different things were blended together.  The opinion expressed in my new paintings is clearer, such as prone or the life style of young people. My thinking is that Bad Girl is a representative image and through series of works that I can express my opinion towards the real life.  For example, Bad Girl dressed up in from of mirror, Bad Girl in Lolita dress, or Bad Girl in navy dress, nurse dress or teacher dress, etc.  They are all about young people in city experiencing different feelings or prone or even sex life.  The baroque style mirror can be seen as a symbol of experience gained through internet, images or magazines of Western countries, or a conflict or contact of different cultures because of different life styles.  Such contact may not make you feel comfortable.  What I want to say is that it is the conflict along with the development of China.  As I said just now, I did not see Chinese paintings before.  But during recent one and half years, I have intentionally read books about the history of Chinese art and studies language of Chinese painting.  But, in general, it is not possible for me to seek certain acculturation.  Maybe it is because what I saw in Europe is different from that in China.  A lot of cultural things become different when leaving the environment where they originate from.  The paintings in the catalogues I saw before are so different from the original painting.  I feel that second hand experiences are very rich in China.  In my painting, I still try something that can combine the elements of Western with those of China.  But I do not want to paint them as pretty as cartoons but leave some conflicts inside

 

Wang: I think what you said just now is a question of technique and how you handle it in painting.  But, when mentioning your painting, I would like to know why you choose to paint these and what are the things that ever touched you.  Maybe it comes from a sudden inspiration, or life experience, or thinking.  Which of them you think is more than others?

 

Song: I still think it is the second hand experience.  Almost every day I see a new movie.

 

Wang: So, the so-called second hand experience is real life that has been filtered.  It is not your real and natural life but something that you take from media, films and fashion. 

 

Song: But I think such so-called filtered experience is the experience in real life.  In the past, there were not so many media or channels.  For example, in the remote countryside, it is very difficult for people to hear of and see new things and all experience people there have are first hand experiences.  But now people have the reading habit, from internet, TV, advertisement, etc.  The difference is not obvious.  Nowadays, people read news from internet, get information from various sources and share life experience, such as things happened in the United States and the earthquake in Sichuan, etc.  Without various media, people would not know these things.  So, how do you call it, first hand or second hand experience?  I think that a lot of things are quite blurred. 

 

Wang: People call the generation of post-’70 and post-’80 the generation of cartoon.  Do you agree with this?

 

Song: I think it is just nonsense.  In fact, many people have nothing to do with cartoon.  They just borrow the brand so as to enter into market quickly and be recognized. 

 

Wang: How would define yourself then?

 

Song: I would rather call myself a creator as I called myself in other media.  I have something to express, no matter about society or people, I would use the way that I think appropriate.  I just think cartoon is a way to do it.

 

Wang: Do you think it is the best way that you have found so far?

 

Song: It is because I have experience of using cartoon for over 10 years and have been working on it all the time.

 

Wang: How do you differentiate yourself from those so-called cartoon people?  You are all alike, aren’t you?

 

Song: I do not think we are the same.

 

Wang: In what way you think you are different?

 

Song: Most of them just make human figures or cultural signs cartoon alike from appearance.  Some people just copy others.  One friend once showed me an oil painting on the cover page of an art magazine and said it was not bad.  When I looked at it, I was surprised that the painting was just a copy of a Japanese film poster.  I still want to create something of my own and let my works talk.

 

Wang: Wei Jia is one of the cartoon generation people.  Like Wei Jia, Chen Ke and Li Jikai, in a sense, I think that their works are the portraits of themselves.  That is to show themselves through certain carrier.  You choose Bad Girl as the carrier.  But why do you choose Bad Girl but not bad boy?  What is your thinking behind?  Is there some complex or other thing else?  Why do you change to be a girl to carry out some of your daydreams, your narcissistic or imagination?  Have you ever asked yourself these questions?

 

Song: Maybe I am more interested in prone and it is easier for me to express or paint.

 

Wang: But is it a must to describe prone by using a female figure?

 

Song: I think so.  I am very fond of the works of Nobuyoshi Araki and Andy Warhol and a lot of others that have something to do with sexuality, or something forbidden, or maybe something else…..

 

Wang: Why do you think it is the essence of human nature?

 

Song: I have just become interested in this during recent years but not before.  When I drew The Jade Goddess, I drew a lot of shots of making love, in Silhouette.  But they were deleted by publishing house.  Maybe it is because I am interested in the social relationship among people and another reason maybe I am more interested in sexuality culture. 

 

Wang: But, up to now, what do you feel about that kind of photographing and female being abused?  What kind of feeling they give you?

 

Song: Beautiful.

 

Wang: You think it is beautiful but it is completely different from viewpoint of female.

 

Song: It depends.  What I like is those ordinary people being photographed on the street.  Like the ordinary women in Japan and there is sudden beauty in some of their facial expressions. I feel it is very beautiful.  Bondage is just so so.  I think there are something special that can 很多人沒有解決或者說想要看到但是不敢或者隱藏起來的東西呈現(xiàn)在你面前，過分，還很信服。

Wang: What I want to say is that, in the past, for example, you were sensitive to what outside world fed you.  But now you have grown up and become sensitive to what you feel about the outside world.

 

Song: Maybe.  I cared much about what people said but now I do not care others’ judgment.  To me, my value does not rely on others’ judgment. Some media in France call me a prodigy.  When in middle school, I began to publish works and received the interview from television station.  Last, Los Angeles Times wrote a long article about me, which was then reprinted on one mainstream media in Britain.  At least I am one of the best in cartoon area in China.

 

Wang: Do you think yourself a prodigy?

 

Song: Not at all.  I sleep very little every day, only about 4 to 5 hours.  It had been the situation the whole year last year.  I had no day and no time for rest.  I am doing my best. Just like all other people, you pay more and you get more.

 

Wang: What do you want to have in return?

 

Song: Like Andy Warhol, someone known to all the people, well known in the world.

 

Wang: What do you think makes him a success?  Why do you want to become him and what of him makes you to be same as?

 

Song: Brand and his name is something like a brand.  In Sichuan earthquake, a teenager was almost buried to death.  When he was dug out from the ruins, he said:”I want to have coke.”  I almost collapsed when watching this on TV.  This is what an international brand can do and it makes a dying child want to drink coke instead of water.  This is a breakthrough of the cultural difference.  I have kept on cartoon not for living but wish to make it a way of cultural export or communication.  In Europe, what many western girls draw is just like those drawn by Japanese.  This may surprise you.

 

Wang: In fact, it achieves the influence of brand. 

 

Song: In one of my early series of Bad Girl on paper, it tells a story that Bad Girl took her dog on a trip.  On the way, they bumped into misfortune and misfortune wanted her dog.  Bad Girl hoped superman could help her.  But misfortune bribed superman by gold coin.  Bad Girl wiped and poison mushroom began to grow in her heart.  Since then, Bad Girl changed and she no longer fought against misfortune but learned how to make use of misfortune and got back her dog.  基本上講的是一個帶有存在主義哲理的寓言。應該說，從此bad girl常常出現(xiàn)在我的藝術作品之中，成為一種化身。

 

Wang: A sort of process.

 

Song: Yes.  At the beginning, you have a direction and feel innocent.  But after gaining some life experiences, you will come to make use of these experiences to get what you want and sometimes process is it.

 

Wang: From the appearance, your works show some influence of Takashi Murakami and Yoshitomo Nara.  But, if looking at your works carefully, we will find something different in deep and I think you should also be influenced by some other people.

 

Song: An artist called Moebius and he is one of the most important artists in Europe and also a cartoonist and a play writer.  Hayao Miyazaki is influenced by Moebius and my cartoon is influenced by him as well.  Other artists, such as Vincent van Gogh, Francis Bacon, Lucian Freud and Egon Schiele, also influence my painting more or less.  I also draw some paintings on real life and these paintings are posted on Time Out Beijing.

 

Wang: In fact, I do not want to talk much about your works.  I do not think what you are painting right now is important.  The important thing is what you think about the world and the development of your painting and these are the things that will impact your next destination.  So, talking about works is actually talking about techniques.  Your paintings can be divided into levels, one focuses on low class of people in social life which represent from the soft and warm part of your heart. Another level is the image of Bad Girl which combines a lot of things in reality.  What determines your next step depends on which direction you go. 

 

Song: I may take both.

 

Wang: It means that you may merge sexuality or maybe some violation in future into the fashionable cartoon and then try it out to form your own opinion and system.  I believe you will be very different after that but it will be very difficult.

 

Song: It will be difficult and I have been thinking about it all the time.

 

Wang: Let’s go back to the question of experience.  What do you think about the 2^nd hand experience which is the source of your creation?  What is your 1^st hand experience?

 

Song: It does not matter whether it is 1^st or 2^nd hand experience.  For example, when in school, I rode bicycle on the street everyday to find a place for sketches or painting.  At that time, I felt that only realistic things carried spirit.  I was thinking about how to make a perfect transform of the natural things onto canvas and how to truly depict the looks of people.  After years, eventually Andy Worhol still copied photos onto canvas and Lucian Freud keep on his realistic paintings.  So, we cannot comment who is good or no good and it does no matter whether it is the 1^st or 2^nd hand experience. It is said that once a critics organized an activity on concept that there was no such an activity.  They posted news on media and organized a forum.  All these art activities were carried out under a phantom circumstance.  Therefore, I do not think 1^st or 2^nd hand experience is the determining factor but it is all about the person who creates.  It is all about you can come up with your own experiences through the process of digesting and understanding,

 

Wang: So, after all, only when there is something that can drive you and arise the inside of you and it can become your original motive.

 

Song: Yes.  So, I prefer not only seeing more and taking more but also feeling more by heart. The most important is the person but not the piece of work or painting.  In fact, these masters are not always masters all the time.  For example, China Art Museum held an exhibition of Gerhard Richter. Some of his works disappointed me.  So, can we say that every single piece of work of him is a master piece and the answer is no.  But he created a way of creation and his artistic experiment was in advance of his time and gave a lead to many people.  I think this is doable and, just like the brand of Coca Cola and Andy Worhol that is something I want to achieve eventually.

 

Wang: Do you have confidence to become someone like Andy Warhol?

 

Song: It should not be a problem

 

Wang: I think I have asked all my questions.  If I have further questions, I will call you.

 

Song: Do you have any suggestion?

 

Wang: I do not think techniques or touches are not important to you and what is important is here (pointing to his head) meaning whether you have a good engine.  If your engine is in good condition, you can produce good works.  If it is in poor quality, you will know no where to start. 

 

Song: What is your expectation of post-70ers and post-80ers?

 

Wang: In fact, there is a wish to seek a third way in China.  We already have two, one is very Chinese and very traditional and the other is to follow the value of western world.  The third one is to develop the China-featured contemporary art by combining Chinese spiritual things with the painting language and techniques of the western world so that China-featured artist individuals would emerge and form their special and identical of individual languages of art rather than groups of artists all with one Chinese symbol. 

 

For example, your works can have more explosiveness.  Your current works are quiet and graceful and how some feature of Baroque which is gorgeous.  I think you should be braver and initiate some breakthrough and see how bad you can be. 

 

Song: Thanks.

 

Wang: You are welcome.

 

Interviewer: Wang Baoju, Deputy Director of Today Art Gallery and Deputy Chief Editor of Today Art magazine